[Samba] Unable to join samba server to a NT4 style domain

Van Sickler, Jim vansickj-eodc at kaman.com
Fri Apr 15 19:36:41 GMT 2005


Ash,

I'd try adding the next Samba box to the Domain,
and use the net rpc oldjoin command first,
to see if it works that way.  If it does,
then you won't have to mess with the
restrictanonymous setting at all.

I don't think setting it back to the
original setting will cause problems,
as everything else was working at
that setting.

I'm also glad that it's a dynamic
setting;  you don't have to reboot
the server every time you change it...

Maybe the reason the Samba 2.x
server setups worked was that the
NT4 default restrictanonymous setting
was 0, and about the time 2.2x/3.x
was released, NT Admins were made
aware of the vulnerability at 0
and were changing it to 1 or 2.

Anyway, I'm glad it's up & running!

Jim



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashutosh Kamdar [mailto:akamdar at gnsi.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:26 AM
> To: Van Sickler, Jim; 'Ashutosh Kamdar'; samba at lists.samba.org
> Subject: Re: [Samba] Unable to join samba server to a NT4 style domain
> 
> 
> Jim,
> 
> It worked! The modification of the registry value on the PDC 
> allowed the samba server to join the domain. Phew! I can get 
> some peace now :)
> 
> I have also acted upon your suggestions about adding the 
> entry to smb.conf. You were right about the server name, it 
> was the former.
> 
> Now, what we have done in terms of setting the registryvalue 
> to 0 is a workaround. Does this have to be done everytime a 
> Samba server joins the domain? I am going to ask my NT admin 
> to change the value back to its original setting. Hope this 
> doesnt cause any problems.
> 
> Is there a patch for this problem that you are aware of? I 
> would think this is a problem which the community knows about 
> (I found a few references to this problem on Google)
> 
> Thanks for you efforts. Samba and Me both prevail!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ash
> 
> ------Original Message-----
> -From: Van Sickler, Jim [mailto:vansickj-eodc at kaman.com]
> -Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 04:57 PM
> -To: ''Ashutosh Kamdar'', samba at lists.samba.org
> -Subject: RE: [Samba] Unable to join samba server to a NT4 
> style domain
> -
> -Ash,
> -
> -  Can you check the value of the
> -restrictanonymous registry key on your
> -NT4 server - I think if it's set higher
> -than 0 or 1 you'll be prevented from
> -joining the Domain.  Set it to 0, let the
> -Samba box join, and set it back to the
> -previous level.  You'll find the
> -setting in 3 places with regedit;  2 are
> -editable, and the 3rd is the current
> -setting.
> -
> -Also, I'm using the smbusers file to
> -map *nix-Windows users, because I'm not
> -running winbindd (it's an OpenBSD box).
> -I've got an entry of:
> -root=administrator
> -
> -You might try adding that file/entry
> -to see if it helps.
> -
> -I guess the --long doesn't display
> -anything, or you have to tell it to
> -debug in order for it to work...
> -
> -If you're not using a WINS server,
> -I'd add this to your smb.conf:
> -        name resolve order = lmhosts host bcast
> -
> -I'm not sure if your lmhosts entry for the
> -NT4 server is gnsi_server1 or gnsi_server1<0x20>
> -I think it should be the former.
> -
> -Jim
> -
> -> -----Original Message-----
> -> From: Ashutosh Kamdar [mailto:akamdar at gnsi.com]
> -> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:20 AM
> -> To: Van Sickler, Jim; 'Ashutosh Kamdar'; samba at lists.samba.org
> -> Subject: Re: [Samba] Unable to join samba server to a NT4 
> style domain
> ->
> ->
> -> Jim,
> ->
> -> I tried something as per your suggestion:
> ->
> -> # ./net rpc join -S NTSERVER -d 3 -l -U administrator%'xxxxx'
> ->
> -> This gave me the output listed below. Hopefully, this will
> -> help shed some light on the problem. Do you know what does
> -> status NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED mean?
> ->
> -> Thanks,
> ->
> -> Ash
> ->
> -> ---------------------8<--------------------
> ->
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] param/loadparm.c:lp_load(3907)
> ->   lp_load: refreshing parameters
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] param/loadparm.c:init_globals(1321)
> ->   Initialising global parameters
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] param/params.c:pm_process(573)
> ->   params.c:pm_process() - Processing configuration file
> -> "/usr/local/samba/lib/smb.conf"
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] param/loadparm.c:do_section(3409)
> ->   Processing section "[global]"
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 2] lib/interface.c:add_interface(81)
> ->   added interface ip=192.168.2.37 bcast=192.168.2.255
> -> nmask=255.255.255.0
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] libsmb/namequery.c:resolve_lmhosts(855)
> ->   resolve_lmhosts: Attempting lmhosts lookup for name
> -> gnsi_server1<0x20>
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] libsmb/namequery.c:resolve_wins(752)
> ->   resolve_wins: Attempting wins lookup for name gnsi_server1<0x20>
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] libsmb/namequery.c:resolve_wins(755)
> ->   resolve_wins: WINS server resolution selected and no WINS
> -> servers listed.
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] libsmb/namequery.c:resolve_hosts(917)
> ->   resolve_hosts: Attempting host lookup for name gnsi_server1<0x20>
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3]
> -> libsmb/cliconnect.c:cli_start_connection(1406)
> ->   Connecting to host=gnsi_server1
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] lib/util_sock.c:open_socket_out(752)
> ->   Connecting to 192.168.2.11 at port 445
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 1] 
> libsmb/cliconnect.c:cli_full_connection(1506)
> ->   failed tcon_X with NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 1] utils/net.c:connect_to_ipc_anonymous(207)
> ->   Cannot connect to server (anonymously).  Error was
> -> NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3]
> -> libsmb/cliconnect.c:cli_start_connection(1406)
> ->   Connecting to host=gnsi_server1
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] lib/util_sock.c:open_socket_out(752)
> ->   Connecting to 192.168.2.11 at port 445
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3]
> -> libsmb/cliconnect.c:cli_session_setup_spnego(708)
> ->   Doing spnego session setup (blob length=110)
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3]
> -> libsmb/cliconnect.c:cli_session_setup_spnego(733)
> ->   got OID=1 2 840 48018 1 2 2
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3]
> -> libsmb/cliconnect.c:cli_session_setup_spnego(733)
> ->   got OID=1 2 840 113554 1 2 2
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3]
> -> libsmb/cliconnect.c:cli_session_setup_spnego(733)
> ->   got OID=1 2 840 113554 1 2 2 3
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3]
> -> libsmb/cliconnect.c:cli_session_setup_spnego(733)
> ->   got OID=1 3 6 1 4 1 311 2 2 10
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3]
> -> libsmb/cliconnect.c:cli_session_setup_spnego(740)
> ->   got principal=gnsi_server1$@GNSI.COM
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3]
> -> libsmb/ntlmssp.c:ntlmssp_client_challenge(869)
> ->   Got challenge flags:
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] libsmb/ntlmssp.c:debug_ntlmssp_flags(62)
> ->   Got NTLMSSP neg_flags=0x62890215
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3]
> -> libsmb/ntlmssp.c:ntlmssp_client_challenge(891)
> ->   NTLMSSP: Set final flags:
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] libsmb/ntlmssp.c:debug_ntlmssp_flags(62)
> ->   Got NTLMSSP neg_flags=0x60080215
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] 
> libsmb/ntlmssp_sign.c:ntlmssp_sign_init(319)
> ->   NTLMSSP Sign/Seal - Initialising with flags:
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] libsmb/ntlmssp.c:debug_ntlmssp_flags(62)
> ->   Got NTLMSSP neg_flags=0x60080215
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] rpc_parse/parse_lsa.c:lsa_io_sec_qos(181)
> ->   lsa_io_sec_qos: length c does not match size 8
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3]
> -> libsmb/cliconnect.c:cli_start_connection(1406)
> ->   Connecting to host=gnsi_server1
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 3] lib/util_sock.c:open_socket_out(752)
> ->   Connecting to 192.168.2.11 at port 445
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 1] 
> libsmb/cliconnect.c:cli_full_connection(1506)
> ->   failed tcon_X with NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 1] utils/net.c:connect_to_ipc_anonymous(207)
> ->   Cannot connect to server (anonymously).  Error was
> -> NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED
> -> Unable to join domain GLOBALNET.
> -> [2005/04/15 12:09:30, 2] utils/net.c:main(897)
> ->   return code = 1
> ->
> ->
> -> -----------------------------8<-------------------
> ->
> ->
> ->
> -> ------Original Message-----
> -> -From: Van Sickler, Jim [mailto:vansickj-eodc at kaman.com]
> -> -Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 09:42 PM
> -> -To: ''Ashutosh Kamdar'', samba at lists.samba.org
> -> -Subject: RE: [Samba] Unable to join samba server to a NT4
> -> style domain
> -> -
> -> -Ash,
> -> -
> -> -net help rpc shows the following for the --long option:
> -> -
> -> --l or --long                    Display full information
> -> -
> -> -In what I've found from googling and
> -> -the Samba-Guide (thanks, John!),
> -> -it looks like net rpc join will create the
> -> -Domain machine account when you run it;  if
> -> -MYSERVER already exists, you'll be prevented
> -> -from creating a duplicate entry.
> -> -
> -> -Try deleting MYSERVER from the Domain.
> -> -
> -> -then run your original command...
> -> -
> -> -./net rpc join -U administrator%'xxxxxxxx'
> -> -
> -> -or ./net rpc join -S NT4SERVER -U administrator%'xxxxxxxx'
> -> -
> -> -and see what happens.
> -> -
> -> -If this works, it reinforces this comment from my earlier link:
> -> -
> -> -This process joins the server to the domain
> -> -without having to create the machine trust
> -> -account on the PDC beforehand.
> -> -
> -> -and is a change from Samba 2.x, which required
> -> -the creation of the machine trust account
> -> -on the PDC before running "smbpasswd -j DOM -r DOMPDC".
> -> -
> -> -John:  if this is true, can Chap 7 be amended to
> -> -reflect the change?
> -> -
> -> -Jim
> -> -
> -> -> -----Original Message-----
> -> -> From: Ashutosh Kamdar [mailto:akamdar at gnsi.com]
> -> -> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 2:25 PM
> -> -> To: Van Sickler, Jim; 'Ashutosh Kamdar'; samba at lists.samba.org
> -> -> Subject: Re: [Samba] Unable to join samba server to a NT4
> -> style domain
> -> ->
> -> ->
> -> -> Jim,
> -> ->
> -> -> I have Samba shut down while executing the net rpc join
> -> -> commands, as the HOW-TO says.
> -> ->
> -> -> On trying the following,
> -> ->
> -> -> # ./net rpc join -S NTSERVER
> -> -> Password:
> -> ->
> -> -> This is the response I get,
> -> ->
> -> -> Could not connect to server NTSERVER
> -> -> The username or password was not correct.
> -> ->
> -> -> The password used was that of the administrator authorized to
> -> -> add machines to the domain. Is there any other
> -> -> username/password I should be using?
> -> ->
> -> -> On trying this,
> -> ->
> -> -> net join -S NT4SERVER -U administrator%'xxxxxxxx' -W
> -> -> MYWORKGROUP --long
> -> ->
> -> -> This is the response I get,
> -> ->
> -> -> Unable to join domain <domain-name>.
> -> ->
> -> -> BTW, what does the switch --long do?
> -> ->
> -> -> I have followed the exact steps in the document you have
> -> -> pointed out and the HOW-TOs. Thanks for pointing that out
> -> -> this particular chapter.
> -> ->
> -> -> Regards,
> -> ->
> -> -> Ash
> -> ->
> -> -> ------Original Message-----
> -> -> -From: Van Sickler, Jim [mailto:vansickj-eodc at kaman.com]
> -> -> -Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 08:30 PM
> -> -> -To: ''Ashutosh Kamdar'', samba at lists.samba.org
> -> -> -Subject: RE: [Samba] Unable to join samba server to a NT4
> -> -> style domain
> -> -> -
> -> -> -Ash,
> -> -> -
> -> -> -Do you have Samba shut down while you're
> -> -> -running net rpc join?  The daemons
> -> -> -shouldn't be running, AFAIK.
> -> -> -
> -> -> -Make sure they're down, and try your earlier
> -> -> -net rpc join commands...
> -> -> -
> -> -> -If that doesn't work, try just:
> -> -> -       net rpc join -S NT4SERVER
> -> -> -
> -> -> -Maybe try deleting MYSERVER from the domain,
> -> -> -then
> -> -> -net join -S NT4SERVER -U administrator%'xxxxxxxx' -W
> -> -> MYWORKGROUP --long
> -> -> -
> -> -> -See
> -> -> -http://aosda.net/docs/samba/3.0/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/domain
> -> -> -member.html#id
> -> -> -2522086
> -> -> -
> -> -> -
> -> -> -Jim
> -> -> -
> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -----Original Message-----
> -> -> -> From: Ashutosh Kamdar [mailto:akamdar at gnsi.com]
> -> -> -> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 12:50 PM
> -> -> -> To: Van Sickler, Jim; 'Ashutosh Kamdar'; 
> samba at lists.samba.org
> -> -> -> Subject: Re: [Samba] Unable to join samba server to a NT4
> -> -> style domain
> -> -> ->
> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> Jim,
> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> Yes, the NTSERVER is a PDC. Do you know of a way to see any
> -> -> -> kind of logs on the net join rpc command?
> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -Ash
> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> ------Original Message-----
> -> -> -> -From: Van Sickler, Jim [mailto:vansickj-eodc at kaman.com]
> -> -> -> -Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 07:40 PM
> -> -> -> -To: ''Ashutosh Kamdar'', samba at lists.samba.org
> -> -> -> -Subject: RE: [Samba] Unable to join samba server to a NT4
> -> -> -> style domain
> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -Ash,
> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -Is NT4SERVER the PDC?
> -> -> -> -If not, use -S PDC instead of -S NT4SERVER
> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -Jim
> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -----Original Message-----
> -> -> -> -> From: Ashutosh Kamdar [mailto:akamdar at gnsi.com]
> -> -> -> -> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 12:24 PM
> -> -> -> -> To: Van Sickler, Jim; 'Ashutosh Kamdar';
> -> samba at lists.samba.org
> -> -> -> -> Subject: Re: [Samba] Unable to join samba server to a NT4
> -> -> -> style domain
> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> Jim,
> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> For all of the four commands you have mentioned, I get the
> -> -> -> -> same response:
> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> Unable to join domain <domain-name>.
> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> There are no error messages or explanation with 
> it, just the 
> -> -> -> -> plain text.
> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> Regards,
> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> Ash
> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> ------Original Message-----
> -> -> -> -> -From: Van Sickler, Jim [mailto:vansickj-eodc at kaman.com]
> -> -> -> -> -Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 07:15 PM
> -> -> -> -> -To: ''Ashutosh Kamdar'', samba at lists.samba.org
> -> -> -> -> -Subject: RE: [Samba] Unable to join samba server to a NT4
> -> -> -> -> style domain
> -> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -Ash,
> -> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -try one of the following:
> -> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -./net rpc join -S NT4SERVER -U administrator
> -> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -./net rpc join -S NT4SERVER -U administrator%'xxxxxxxx'
> -> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -./net rpc join -W MYWORKGROUP -U administrator
> -> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -./net rpc join -W MYWORKGROUP -U administrator%'xxxxxxxx'
> -> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -Jim
> -> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -> -----Original Message-----
> -> -> -> -> -> From: Ashutosh Kamdar [mailto:akamdar at gnsi.com]
> -> -> -> -> -> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 11:48 AM
> -> -> -> -> -> To: Van Sickler, Jim; samba at lists.samba.org
> -> -> -> -> -> Subject: Re: [Samba] Unable to join samba 
> server to a NT4 
> -> -> -> -> style domain
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> Jim,
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -Try adding the Samba server to the NT4 Domain first.
> -> -> -> -> -> Response: The samba server has already been added to
> -> -> -> the NT domain.
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -Is the NT4 server also a WINS server?
> -> -> -> -> -> -If so, add that info to the smb.conf
> -> -> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -> -wins server = xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
> -> -> -> -> -> -name resolve order = wins lmhosts host bcast
> -> -> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -> -Put the NT4 server info into /etc/lmhosts
> -> -> -> -> -> -and /etc/hosts
> -> -> -> -> -> -xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx	NT4SERVER
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> Response: The NT server is not functioning as a
> -> WINS server.
> -> -> -> -> -> The /etc/hosts and /etc/lmhosts already have the
> -> entry for
> -> -> -> -> -> the NT server. The server can also resolve the
> -> NTSERVER_NAME
> -> -> -> -> -> using DNS.
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> I also used rpcclient to see if there any connection
> -> -> -> -> -> problems, and it was able to connect just fine to the
> -> -> -> -> -> NTSERVER. Thorougly confused.
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> Any other ideas?
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> Thanks for your response,
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> Ash
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -
> -> -> -> -> -> -> -----Original Message-----
> -> -> -> -> -> -> From: Ashutosh Kamdar [mailto:akamdar at gnsi.com]
> -> -> -> -> -> -> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 12:58 AM
> -> -> -> -> -> -> To: samba at lists.samba.org
> -> -> -> -> -> -> Subject: [Samba] Unable to join samba 
> server to a NT4
> -> -> -> -> style domain
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> Hello,
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> I have installed Samba version 3.0.13 on a
> -> -> Solaris 9 machine
> -> -> -> -> -> -> and am trying to add it to an existing NT domain
> -> -> as a member
> -> -> -> -> -> -> server. I have followed the instructions in
> -> -> Chapter 2 of the
> -> -> -> -> -> -> Samba HOW-TO collection for adding a samba server as
> -> -> -> a Domain
> -> -> -> -> -> -> member. The problem is that when i use the net
> -> rpc join
> -> -> -> -> -> -> command to join the domain, I get the 
> following error:
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> # ./net rpc join -U administrator%'xxxxxxxx'
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> Unable to find a suitable server
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> Unable to find a suitable server
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> Specifying the domain name with a -w switch or the
> -> -> -> PDC doesnt
> -> -> -> -> -> -> seem to help.
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> Is there a way for me to see a detailed version
> -> -> of the error
> -> -> -> -> -> -> message or some log file where this is 
> dumped to? I am 
> -> -> -> -> -> -> posting the smb.conf for reference. Please help
> -> -> me resolve
> -> -> -> -> -> -> this error.
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> Thanks,
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> Ash
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> ->
> -> ->
> -> 
> ----------------------------------8<----------------------------------
> -> -> -> -> -> -> smb.conf
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> [global]
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         dns proxy = no
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         debug timestamp = yes
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         encrypt passwords = yes
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         idmap gid = 15000-20000
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         socket options = TCP_NODELAY
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         max log size = 1024
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         password server = *
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         idmap uid = 15000-20000
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         debug level = 3
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         security = domain
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         server string = Samba Server
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         workgroup = MYWORKGROUP
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         log level = 3
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         log file = /usr/local/samba/var/log.%m
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         netbios name = MYSERVER
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         load printers = yes
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         os level = 33
> -> -> -> -> -> ->         default = share
> -> -> -> -> -> -> [homes]
> -> -> -> -> -> ->    comment = Home Directories
> -> -> -> -> -> ->    valid users = %S
> -> -> -> -> -> ->    browseable = no
> -> -> -> -> -> ->    writable = yes
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> [printers]
> -> -> -> -> -> ->    comment = All Printers
> -> -> -> -> -> ->    path = /usr/spool/samba
> -> -> -> -> -> ->    browseable = no
> -> -> -> -> -> ->    guest ok = no
> -> -> -> -> -> ->    writable = no
> -> -> -> -> -> ->    printable = yes
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> -> [share]
> -> -> -> -> -> -> path = /share
> -> -> -> -> -> -> comment = Solaris share
> -> -> -> -> -> -> valid users = @Accounts
> -> -> -> -> -> -> guest ok = Yes
> -> -> -> -> -> -> read only = No
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> ->
> -> ->
> -> 
> ----------------------------------8<----------------------------------
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
> -> -> -> -> -> ->
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