[clug] Higher level CGI frameworks?

[Jason]

I really think if you want one package to do everything (which most people probably dont) django is what your looking for. I suggest spending a day or two learning python, going through a bunch of tutorials, there isnt that much magic in python and all the modules have really good docs on the python.org site. If you get stuck on anything in particular you can ask me or on the pySIG list. I havent done much with django since we use a lot of inhouse stuff at work, I use cheetah for templating and sqlObject for database access but the idea of one package that ties it all together and has admin and debug messages is tempting enough for me to look at django in my spare time.

Jason

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:32:55 +1000, Michael James <clug2 at james.st> wrote:

> On a LAMPerl, LAMPython, or LAMJava platform
>  what is a better web app development framework than CGI?
>
> In the bad old days, I wrote simple web apps in Perl CGI.
> Hand hacked everything from the ground up.
> Tied my mind in knots working out the flow,
>  that page POSTs to this page,
>  this page also does the next confirmation screen,
>  any errors redirect to the other page, ...
> Thought and wrote in HTML and Perl simultaneously
>  embedding HTML in Perl print statements,
>  hating the layout of polyglot code on the page.
> Invented a half-arsed template system, replacing %DATA% strings.
> Used an IDE consisting of 3 editor windows,
>  and a browser with the refresh button still visible.
> Did test printouts to STDERR running into a tail on Apache's error_log.
>
> Ended up with some ugly un-maintainable mazes that still haunt me.
>
>
> So what's better?
> What offers more structure through the pages,
>  connections to databases,
>  auto-generation of the red error messages
>  when data doesn't pass validation,
>  useful error messages when it breaks,
>  the chance to re-use its components,
>  whole-of-site style and function(s).
>
> I'm not learning PHP; "Trainer wheels without the bicycle" doesn't appeal.
>
> Mason sounded good, except I couldn't get it installed on SLES9
>  and scope among the fragments turned into a nightmare.
> I felt like the trainer whose elephant wouldn't stand up.
> In the beginning I'd stride in issuing commands,
>  by the end of the day I'd be morosely poking it with a stick, hoping...
>
> Django sounds cool, comes with a set of really good tutorials
> But they peter out, and it's all magic-in-python.
> I'd like to learn python, wanted higher level...
> Well this is so high-level that it can extrapolate
>  your dream website from a fragment of fairy-cake.
> But what do you have to do to the fragment to make it write the file I need?
>
> Java servelets, that's what the boss wants.
> Is it just back to the horror of CGI in an unfamiliar language?
>
> Any comments, suggestions more constructive than Holy Writ?
>
> michaelj
>
> PS: The verbosity of java is a turn-off.