[cifs-protocol] [EXTERNAL] [MS-DTYP] 2.5.1.1 another SDDL syntax ABNF inaccuracy - TrackingID#2302020040006024

Mon Apr 10 16:56:31 UTC 2023

Hi Douglas,

With regard to the question you posed a couple months back about cond-expr in the ABNF in [MS-DTYP] 2.5.1.1, we had to be more elaborate with the document change to account for precedence. Please let me know if you have any concerns about this change:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Changed from:

cond-expr = term / term [wspace] ("||" / "&&" ) [wspace] cond-expr / (["!"] [wspace] "(" cond-expr ")")

Changed to:

; multiple rules for cond-expr to represent different precedence of || and &&
; super-term and factor are intermediate rules and used only in this part of the grammar
cond-expr = expr
expr = super-term [wspace] *( "||" [wspace] super-term )
super-term = factor [wspace] *( "&&" [wspace] factor )
factor = ["!"] [wspace] "(" [wspace] factor [wspace] ")"
factor = term
;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks,
Kristian

Kristian Smith
Support Escalation Engineer
Microsoft Azure DevOps &
Windows Open Spec Protocols
Office: (425) 421-4442
kristian.smith at microsoft.com<mailto:kristian.smith at microsoft.com>

________________________________
From: Douglas Bagnall <douglas.bagnall at catalyst.net.nz>
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 4:30 PM
To: Kristian Smith <Kristian.Smith at microsoft.com>; cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org <cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>
Cc: Microsoft Support <supportmail at microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [MS-DTYP] 2.5.1.1 another SDDL syntax ABNF inaccuracy - TrackingID#2302020040006024

hi Kristian,

I don't actually think I have a question about the parentheses any more.

It was just that the SDDL is parenthesis-heavy by convention, and I assumed they
might be required more than is implied by that ABNF. However "2.5.1.3
Parentheses and Order of Precedence" says they are not. Examples 2 and 3 have
more parentheses than necessary, but that is not a bad thing.

Thanks for the doc change.

Douglas

On 4/02/23 11:22, Kristian Smith wrote:
> Hi Douglas,
>
> With regards to the “term” actually being a “cond-expr”, you are correct. I will
> submit a document change, and you’ll see it propagate in a future release.
>
> As far as the parentheses are concerned, are you curious why the they are
> required at the end at the end but nowhere else? Just hoping to confirm the
> question.
>
> cond-expr = term /
>                 cond-expr [wspace] ("||" / "&&" ) [wspace] cond-expr /
>                 (["!"] [wspace] *"(" cond-expr ")"*)
>
> Regards,
>
> Kristian
>
> Kristian Smith
>
> Support Escalation Engineer
>
> Windows Open Spec Protocols
>
> Office: (425) 421-4442
>
> kristian.smith at microsoft.com <mailto:kristian.smith at microsoft.com>
>
> *From:* Kristian Smith
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2023 9:58 AM
> *To:* Douglas Bagnall <douglas.bagnall at catalyst.net.nz>;
> cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org
> *Cc:* Microsoft Support <supportmail at microsoft.com>
> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] [MS-DTYP] 2.5.1.1 another SDDL syntax ABNF inaccuracy
> - TrackingID#2302020040006024
>
> [Jeff to Bcc]
>
> Hi Douglas,
>
> Thanks for reaching out. I’ll be looking into this ABNF issue you’ve presented.
> I’ll get back to you once I have more information.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kristian
>
> Kristian Smith
>
> Support Escalation Engineer
>
> Windows Open Spec Protocols
>
> Office: (425) 421-4442
>
> kristian.smith at microsoft.com <mailto:kristian.smith at microsoft.com>
>
> *From:* Jeff McCashland (He/him) <jeffm at microsoft.com <mailto:jeffm at microsoft.com>>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2023 7:32 AM
> *To:* Douglas Bagnall <douglas.bagnall at catalyst.net.nz
> <mailto:douglas.bagnall at catalyst.net.nz>>; cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org
> <mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>
> *Cc:* Microsoft Support <supportmail at microsoft.com
> <mailto:supportmail at microsoft.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] [MS-DTYP] 2.5.1.1 another SDDL syntax ABNF inaccuracy
> - TrackingID#2302020040006024
>
> [DocHelp to BCC, support on CC, SR ID on Subject]
>
> Hi Douglas,
>
> Thanks for your question. One of the Open Specifications team members will
> respond to assist you. In the meantime, we’ve created case 2302020040006024 to
> track this request. Please leave the case number in the subject when
> communicating with our team about this request.
>
> Best regards,*
> /Jeff M/**/^c /**/Cashland (He/him) /**| Senior Escalation Engineer/|
> Microsoft/****Protocol Open Specifications Team *
>
> Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone: (UTC-08:00)
> Pacific Time (US and Canada)
>
> Local country phone number found here:
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsupport.microsoft.com%2Fglobalenglish&data=05%7C01%7CKristian.Smith%40microsoft.com%7C9f6359c446e743cebfc608db06471117%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638110674529892545%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=f%2Bjag7%2B3O9janjkth8LbzRcNhzzEUQ2UhypjuSGupfw%3D&reserved=0<http://support.microsoft.com/globalenglish>
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsupport.microsoft.com%2Fglobalenglish&data=05%7C01%7CKristian.Smith%40microsoft.com%7C9f6359c446e743cebfc608db06471117%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638110674529892545%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=f%2Bjag7%2B3O9janjkth8LbzRcNhzzEUQ2UhypjuSGupfw%3D&reserved=0<http://support.microsoft.com/globalenglish>>| Extension 1138300
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Douglas Bagnall <douglas.bagnall at catalyst.net.nz
> <mailto:douglas.bagnall at catalyst.net.nz>>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2023 2:24 AM
> *To:* Interoperability Documentation Help <dochelp at microsoft.com
> <mailto:dochelp at microsoft.com>>; cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org
> <mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org> <cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org
> <mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [MS-DTYP] 2.5.1.1 another SDDL syntax ABNF inaccuracy
>
> hi Dochelp,
>
> I think this bit is wrong in the SDDL ABNF. We have (with irrelevant bits
> omitted):
>
>     conditional-ace = ... ";" "(" cond-expr ")" ")"
>
>     cond-expr = term /
>                 term [wspace] ("||" / "&&" ) [wspace] cond-expr /
>                 (["!"] [wspace] "(" cond-expr ")")
>
>
> which says a conditional expression compounded with '&&' or '||' can only
> have a simple term on the left hand side. That doesn't seem right, nor is
> it in keeping with the text.
>
> Not least of all, examples 2 and 3 in 2.4.4.17.9 have compound expressions
> on either side of a central operator, like so:
>
>     (@User.smartcard==1 || @Device.managed==1) && (@Resource.dept
> Any_of{"Sales","HR"})
>
> My belief is the example is correct and the ABNF is wrong. It should
> probably say something  more like this:
>
>     cond-expr = term /
>                 cond-expr [wspace] ("||" / "&&" ) [wspace] cond-expr /
>                 (["!"] [wspace] "(" cond-expr ")")
>
>
> though that doesn't explain when you need parentheses and when you don't.
>
> Douglas
>

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