[Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC

Chris McKeever tech-mail at prupref.com
Thu May 8 13:46:01 GMT 2003 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Collins, Kevin [mailto:KCollins at nesbittengineering.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 8:25 AM
> To: samba at lists.samba.org
> Subject: RE: [Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC
> 
> 
> OK, just so were all on the same page.... :)
> 
> As it stands right now, using Samba 2.2.x I can not do a "drop-in"
> replacement for my WinNT PDC, I need to build a new domain 
> with the Samba
> PDC at the core.  As I don't have the time to wait on Samba 
> 3.x, I must move
> on knowing the limitations and requirements of doing so.
> 
> I understand the problem with Exchange 2000 requiring Active 
> Directory.  I
> have no intention of moving to Exchange 2000, so that's a non 
> issue.  I'm
> *seriously* looking for an open source solution to completely replace
> Exchange anyway.  But that's another fish for another day.
> 

I faced a similar problem, and just dropped exchange:  www.webbasedemail.com
if you need polished
squirrelmail if you just want functionality


> My current domain design has three independent domains with 
> established
> two-ways trusts.  I understand that Samba 2.2.x doesn't do 
> trusts either, so
> while I'm designing the new Samba domain, I'm probably going 
> to be building
> *one* domain with at least two BDCs to replace the PDCs in 
> the other domains
> I have now.
> 
> Because this is a three-site setup that is connected by 128k 
> Frame-Relay
> lines to form the WAN (hence the three NT domains), I 
> probably need the
> robustness of an LDAP backend.  This (I think) will allow me to create
> "replicated" copies of the LDAP database in each of the three 
> sites (on the
> Samba BDCs), so that they each can function independently of 
> each other if
> the WAN goes down.  It also should allow me to keep 
> authentication traffic
> isolated to each site as well.
> 

This works great for me

> Because I'm maintaining an NT style setup with Samba 2.2.x, I 
> should be able
> to have my existing Exchange 5.5 server authenticate against the Samba
> PDC/BDCs.  I haven't tested this, but from David Chait's comments I'm
> assuming this is the case.  I was planning on building a 
> Samba PDC in my lab
> today to test this, but if anyone can give me a definite answer....
> 
> Do those with greater Samba experience than I agree with the 
> statements
> above?
> 
> BTW John T.:  I appreciate the offer to call you if I need 
> help.  Before
> it's all over, I'm certain I'll do just that!  Does 3:00 am 
> on Saturday work
> for you?  :-)
> 
> Again thanks to all,  I'm off to do more reading...now where 
> is that LDAP
> HOWTO?
> 
> --
> Kevin L. Collins, MCSE
> Systems Manager
> Nesbitt Engineering, Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John H Terpstra [mailto:jht at samba.org]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 10:19 PM
> > To: tech mail
> > Cc: samba at lists.samba.org; Dan Gapinski; Collins, Kevin
> > Subject: RE: [Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 7 May 2003, tech mail wrote:
> > 
> > > Hey John..thanks for that..I think many of us (probably 
> > wrongfully) term BDC
> > > as authentication, and then just leave it at that...which 
> > samba, as you
> > > stated,  does do.
> > 
> > Samba-3 does MUCH more than that - it allows you to build 
> an NT4 style
> > domain controller that has the robustness and scalability of Active
> > Directory. But the design implementation will be VERY 
> > different from the
> > way that ADS does it.
> > 
> > I firmly believe that we have an alternative solution that 
> > for some people
> > (many) will be a better solution than ADS. It has it's own 
> > unique features
> > and benefits. BUT, it is NOT NT4 PDC/DBC! It is NOT ADS! To 
> > say otherwise
> > will earn us a scorn we will deserve.
> > 
> > We need to get the message out that Samba offers and 
> > alternative that may
> > be better, may be no better, and may not suit every site. But 
> > for those it
> > does suit it is a sweet and dandy solution.
> > 
> > - John T.
> > 
> > >
> > > I guess the way I look at it is, if you have a NT PDC, then 
> > you probably
> > > have at least one other NT BDC...the SAMBA machine is used 
> > for a remote site
> > > and authenticating..
> > >
> > > If the PDC poo-poo's out, you have that other BDC which you 
> > can promote.  I
> > > couldn't imagine having a NT PDC with a bunch of samba machines
> > > authenticating, because then, why not just take the plunge 
> > fully and go a
> > > full samba controlled backend?
> > >
> > > So, as you said..it doesnt do all the bells and whistles 
> > that define an NT
> > > BDC...but it does do the important part and lets you logon!
> > >
> > > ;)
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: John H Terpstra [mailto:jht at samba.org]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 8:46 PM
> > > > To: tech mail
> > > > Cc: David Chait; samba at lists.samba.org; Dan Gapinski; 
> > Collins, Kevin
> > > > Subject: RE: [Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 7 May 2003, tech mail wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > bit baffeld as to your statement about:
> > > > > Samba-2.2.x and Samba-3.0.0 can not act as a BDC to an NT4 PDC
> > > > >
> > > > > maybe we are just on a different page, but with winbind,
> > > > arent you able to
> > > > > grab the user database from a remote NT4 PDC?? and then
> > > > authenticate off
> > > > > that?  which would then be a BDC (for authentication
> > > > puposes at least)
> > > >
> > > > Aparently we are on a different page!
> > > >
> > > > You really will need to read the new Samba-HOWTO-Collection
> > > > some time (not
> > > > released yet). This document is a work in progress.
> > > >
> > > > > please correct me where I am wrong, or where there may be
> > > > miscommunication
> > > >
> > > > Wrong. Winbind does not do SAM replication! If it does then
> > > > point me to
> > > > the code that makes that happen. :)
> > > >
> > > > Full BDC functionality requires that the BDC will NOT ONLY
> > > > authenticate
> > > > domain logons, but also that it will partake fully in
> > > > replication of the
> > > > MS Windows NT4 domain security files (these are the files
> > > > located on NT4
> > > > in C:\WinNT\System32\config), the files that partake in
> > > > Domain Security
> > > > are SAM and Security. Trust me, Samba does NOT have a Windows
> > > > NT4 style
> > > > Registry, even though Samba-3 does emulate some parts of it.
> > > >
> > > > But replication of all this data and the protocols needed 
> > to make that
> > > > happen is NOT supported in Samba. This means Samba also does
> > > > NOT have the
> > > > protocols that trigger Domain Security account synchronisation.
> > > >
> > > > One more feature that the BDC/PDC code functionality premits
> > > > is for BDCs
> > > > to be promoted to PDCs which will cause a PDC to be demoted
> > > > to BDC. Again,
> > > > Samba does NOT support this functionality.
> > > >
> > > > In effect therefore we can not and must not claim that Samba
> > > > CAN be a BDC
> > > > to an NT4 PDC. That type of claim will cause trouble and 
> > disenchanted
> > > > users.
> > > >
> > > > What should be noted though, is that Samba can do distributed
> > > > authentication. There are a number of ways that can be done.
> > > > Winbind is
> > > > just one of them. But with winbind, if the PDC goes down,
> > > > your BDC is out
> > > > of operation (if that is what you are dependant on in your
> > > > "BDC" design).
> > > >
> > > > I hope my answer is totally clear now. More so, I hope this
> > > > brings us all
> > > > onto the one page again. :)
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > John T.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: John H Terpstra [mailto:jht at samba.org]
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 4:22 PM
> > > > > > To: David Chait
> > > > > > Cc: samba at lists.samba.org; Dan Gapinski; Collins, Kevin
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, 7 May 2003, David Chait wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Samba cannot act as a BDC, at least it couldn't 
> > last I checked.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Samba-2.2.x CAN act as a BDC to a Samba PDC. Samba-2.2.x and
> > > > > > Samba-3.0.0
> > > > > > can not act as a BDC to an NT4 PDC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Samba-3.0.0 will offer a facility to migrate all accounts
> > > > off an NT4
> > > > > > Domain to a Samba Domain. You CAN with Samba-3.0.0
> > > > > > transparently replace
> > > > > > your PDC without having to reconfigure all workstations.
> > > > > > Samba-3.0.0 is
> > > > > > nearing going into Beta (and out of Alpha) soon. We are
> > > > > > working hard to
> > > > > > document this release VERY thouroughly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - John T.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Dan Gapinski" <DanGapinski at qsi-r2.com>
> > > > > > > To: "Collins, Kevin" <KCollins at nesbittengineering.com>;
> > > > > > > <samba at lists.samba.org>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 2:00 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > BTW,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > were you looking for a drop-in replacement for your
> > > > > > current PDC? That
> > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > require some doing. Like making it slave as a BDC before
> > > > > > promoting it to a
> > > > > > > > PDC, and I have not tried that, & don't know if its
> > > > > > possible. The docs
> > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > though.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Collins, Kevin" <KCollins at nesbittengineering.com>
> > > > > > > > To: <samba at lists.samba.org>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 3:33 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi All!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks to all of you that responded to my previous
> > > > > > posts.  I've gotten a
> > > > > > > > lot
> > > > > > > > > more info now than I used to have!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But I still have questions.  The biggest right now is:
> > > > > > Is there a way
> > > > > > > > build
> > > > > > > > > up a Samba PDC as a direct replacement for an existing
> > > > > > Windows NT 4.0
> > > > > > > PDC?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All the material I've found to date is written from a
> > > > > > standpoint of
> > > > > > > > creating
> > > > > > > > > a new domain as you create the Samba machine.  This
> > > > > > maybe what I have to
> > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > in the end, but I would like to avoid it if possible.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If there is a way, can someone point me to the right
> > > > > > place for the
> > > > > > > > > HOWTO/Documentation?  As of right now, I'm not looking
> > > > > > for an LDAP
> > > > > > > > solution,
> > > > > > > > > but if that's what it takes, then that's 
> where I'll go.
> > > > > >  For what it's
> > > > > > > > > worth, the setup will be on Red Hat's "ES" 
> Server (with
> > > > > > I think is RH
> > > > > > > 7.3
> > > > > > > > > based) and Samba 2.2.8.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why do I need this?  Because I have an existing
> > > > > > Exchange Server with a
> > > > > > > 4GB
> > > > > > > > > Information Store that I would have to rebuild as well
> > > > > > - not a pretty
> > > > > > > > > picture.  If I can build the Samba PDC as a 
> replacement
> > > > > > for the existing
> > > > > > > > > PDC, that's would what I'd like to do.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kevin L. Collins, MCSE
> > > > > > > > > Systems Manager
> > > > > > > > > Nesbitt Engineering, Inc.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > (859) 233-3111 x24
> > > > > > > > > --
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > John H Terpstra
> > > > > Email: jht at samba.org
> > > > > --
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL 
> and read the
> > > > > instructions:  http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > John H Terpstra
> > > Email: jht at samba.org
> > >
> >
> 
> -- 
> John H Terpstra
> Email: jht at samba.org
> -- 
> To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the
> instructions:  http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
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