[Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC

Chris McKeever tech-mail at prupref.com
Thu May 8 02:27:21 GMT 2003


The lord have cometh!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John H Terpstra [mailto:jht at samba.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 9:19 PM
> To: tech mail
> Cc: David Chait; samba at lists.samba.org; Dan Gapinski; Collins, Kevin
> Subject: RE: [Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC
> 
> 
> On Wed, 7 May 2003, tech mail wrote:
> 
> > Hey John..thanks for that..I think many of us (probably 
> wrongfully) term BDC
> > as authentication, and then just leave it at that...which 
> samba, as you
> > stated,  does do.
> 
> Samba-3 does MUCH more than that - it allows you to build an NT4 style
> domain controller that has the robustness and scalability of Active
> Directory. But the design implementation will be VERY 
> different from the
> way that ADS does it.
> 
> I firmly believe that we have an alternative solution that 
> for some people
> (many) will be a better solution than ADS. It has it's own 
> unique features
> and benefits. BUT, it is NOT NT4 PDC/DBC! It is NOT ADS! To 
> say otherwise
> will earn us a scorn we will deserve.
> 
> We need to get the message out that Samba offers and 
> alternative that may
> be better, may be no better, and may not suit every site. But 
> for those it
> does suit it is a sweet and dandy solution.
> 
> - John T.
> 
> >
> > I guess the way I look at it is, if you have a NT PDC, then 
> you probably
> > have at least one other NT BDC...the SAMBA machine is used 
> for a remote site
> > and authenticating..
> >
> > If the PDC poo-poo's out, you have that other BDC which you 
> can promote.  I
> > couldn't imagine having a NT PDC with a bunch of samba machines
> > authenticating, because then, why not just take the plunge 
> fully and go a
> > full samba controlled backend?
> >
> > So, as you said..it doesnt do all the bells and whistles 
> that define an NT
> > BDC...but it does do the important part and lets you logon!
> >
> > ;)
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John H Terpstra [mailto:jht at samba.org]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 8:46 PM
> > > To: tech mail
> > > Cc: David Chait; samba at lists.samba.org; Dan Gapinski; 
> Collins, Kevin
> > > Subject: RE: [Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 7 May 2003, tech mail wrote:
> > >
> > > > bit baffeld as to your statement about:
> > > > Samba-2.2.x and Samba-3.0.0 can not act as a BDC to an NT4 PDC
> > > >
> > > > maybe we are just on a different page, but with winbind,
> > > arent you able to
> > > > grab the user database from a remote NT4 PDC?? and then
> > > authenticate off
> > > > that?  which would then be a BDC (for authentication
> > > puposes at least)
> > >
> > > Aparently we are on a different page!
> > >
> > > You really will need to read the new Samba-HOWTO-Collection
> > > some time (not
> > > released yet). This document is a work in progress.
> > >
> > > > please correct me where I am wrong, or where there may be
> > > miscommunication
> > >
> > > Wrong. Winbind does not do SAM replication! If it does then
> > > point me to
> > > the code that makes that happen. :)
> > >
> > > Full BDC functionality requires that the BDC will NOT ONLY
> > > authenticate
> > > domain logons, but also that it will partake fully in
> > > replication of the
> > > MS Windows NT4 domain security files (these are the files
> > > located on NT4
> > > in C:\WinNT\System32\config), the files that partake in
> > > Domain Security
> > > are SAM and Security. Trust me, Samba does NOT have a Windows
> > > NT4 style
> > > Registry, even though Samba-3 does emulate some parts of it.
> > >
> > > But replication of all this data and the protocols needed 
> to make that
> > > happen is NOT supported in Samba. This means Samba also does
> > > NOT have the
> > > protocols that trigger Domain Security account synchronisation.
> > >
> > > One more feature that the BDC/PDC code functionality premits
> > > is for BDCs
> > > to be promoted to PDCs which will cause a PDC to be demoted
> > > to BDC. Again,
> > > Samba does NOT support this functionality.
> > >
> > > In effect therefore we can not and must not claim that Samba
> > > CAN be a BDC
> > > to an NT4 PDC. That type of claim will cause trouble and 
> disenchanted
> > > users.
> > >
> > > What should be noted though, is that Samba can do distributed
> > > authentication. There are a number of ways that can be done.
> > > Winbind is
> > > just one of them. But with winbind, if the PDC goes down,
> > > your BDC is out
> > > of operation (if that is what you are dependant on in your
> > > "BDC" design).
> > >
> > > I hope my answer is totally clear now. More so, I hope this
> > > brings us all
> > > onto the one page again. :)
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > John T.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: John H Terpstra [mailto:jht at samba.org]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 4:22 PM
> > > > > To: David Chait
> > > > > Cc: samba at lists.samba.org; Dan Gapinski; Collins, Kevin
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 7 May 2003, David Chait wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Samba cannot act as a BDC, at least it couldn't 
> last I checked.
> > > > >
> > > > > Samba-2.2.x CAN act as a BDC to a Samba PDC. Samba-2.2.x and
> > > > > Samba-3.0.0
> > > > > can not act as a BDC to an NT4 PDC.
> > > > >
> > > > > Samba-3.0.0 will offer a facility to migrate all accounts
> > > off an NT4
> > > > > Domain to a Samba Domain. You CAN with Samba-3.0.0
> > > > > transparently replace
> > > > > your PDC without having to reconfigure all workstations.
> > > > > Samba-3.0.0 is
> > > > > nearing going into Beta (and out of Alpha) soon. We are
> > > > > working hard to
> > > > > document this release VERY thouroughly.
> > > > >
> > > > > - John T.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Dan Gapinski" <DanGapinski at qsi-r2.com>
> > > > > > To: "Collins, Kevin" <KCollins at nesbittengineering.com>;
> > > > > > <samba at lists.samba.org>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 2:00 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > BTW,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > were you looking for a drop-in replacement for your
> > > > > current PDC? That
> > > > > > might
> > > > > > > require some doing. Like making it slave as a BDC before
> > > > > promoting it to a
> > > > > > > PDC, and I have not tried that, & don't know if its
> > > > > possible. The docs
> > > > > > might
> > > > > > > though.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Collins, Kevin" <KCollins at nesbittengineering.com>
> > > > > > > To: <samba at lists.samba.org>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 3:33 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [Samba] Replacing WinNT 4 PDC with Samba PDC
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi All!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks to all of you that responded to my previous
> > > > > posts.  I've gotten a
> > > > > > > lot
> > > > > > > > more info now than I used to have!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But I still have questions.  The biggest right now is:
> > > > > Is there a way
> > > > > > > build
> > > > > > > > up a Samba PDC as a direct replacement for an existing
> > > > > Windows NT 4.0
> > > > > > PDC?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All the material I've found to date is written from a
> > > > > standpoint of
> > > > > > > creating
> > > > > > > > a new domain as you create the Samba machine.  This
> > > > > maybe what I have to
> > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > in the end, but I would like to avoid it if possible.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If there is a way, can someone point me to the right
> > > > > place for the
> > > > > > > > HOWTO/Documentation?  As of right now, I'm not looking
> > > > > for an LDAP
> > > > > > > solution,
> > > > > > > > but if that's what it takes, then that's where I'll go.
> > > > >  For what it's
> > > > > > > > worth, the setup will be on Red Hat's "ES" Server (with
> > > > > I think is RH
> > > > > > 7.3
> > > > > > > > based) and Samba 2.2.8.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why do I need this?  Because I have an existing
> > > > > Exchange Server with a
> > > > > > 4GB
> > > > > > > > Information Store that I would have to rebuild as well
> > > > > - not a pretty
> > > > > > > > picture.  If I can build the Samba PDC as a replacement
> > > > > for the existing
> > > > > > > > PDC, that's would what I'd like to do.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kevin L. Collins, MCSE
> > > > > > > > Systems Manager
> > > > > > > > Nesbitt Engineering, Inc.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (859) 233-3111 x24
> > > > > > > > --
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > John H Terpstra
> > > > > Email: jht at samba.org
> > > > > --
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL 
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> > > > > instructions:  http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
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> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > John H Terpstra
> > > Email: jht at samba.org
> > >
> >
> 
> -- 
> John H Terpstra
> Email: jht at samba.org
> 


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