[Samba] I stand by what I said.. I believe I was misunderstood (Was: !!ATTENTION NEWBIES!!)

[Chris de Vidal]

Before you assume, I actually host "Linux Newbie"
classes and answer some of the most basic questions in
great detail on our LUG list.

I believe I was misunderstood.

--- Robert Adkins II <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> 	My name is ANGRY MAILING LIST GUY.

Wasn't angry when I wrote it.

> I am here to tell you that I
> don't appreciate seeing questions that are easily
> found within the basic
> documentation for the somewhat to extremely complex
> service that you
> wish to install on your server.

I don't appreciate when some developer works hard
writing docs and then lazy people ignore it.  What I
really meant was

!!ATTENTION LAZY PEOPLE!!  Help yourself with these
resources!  Respect valuable mailing list/developer
resources!

Many good questions get ignored for the volume of lazy
people's questions.

> 	I find it terribly taxing to have to deal with
> regular questions

Again, you assume.  I answer practically all newbie
questions in our LUG, at our InstallFests, and at our
training class (next one in 2 weeks).

> from what I consider "newbs" because my level of
> skill is so much higher
> then the rest of you.

Read, don't assume.  I said "Though I don't count
myself an expert,"  I know where I came from and how I
got here.. lots of homework and experimentation.  I
know newbies can do it, too, without wasting lots of
mailing list resources or developer's time.

> It doesn't matter that most of
> those questions
> come from people that speak English as a second or
> even third language,
> which means they might have some difficulty in
> understanding what I
> consider standard formatted sentences and manual
> pages.

The first valid point you've made!  I hadn't thought
about the language barrier.  Still, lazy questions
from english-speaking users are common in this list.

> 	Furthermore, just because a great deal of the
> available online
> documentation is out of date, there is no reason why
> you plebeians
> shouldn't be able to infer how some the sections are
> configured in newer
> versions, even if those sections RADICALLY change
> how they are
> configured. 

That's why I listed the other sources.. mailing list
search, Google, and a book published this month.

> 	I have had a bad day, so I am going to make
> sure that the rest
> of you all pay for me being in a bad mood.

Assuming, again.

> While I can
> agree that there are many times when similar
> questions are posted, I
> have to vehemently disagree that they are "useless"
> questions. 

The words "useless" never came from my keyboard.  The
only bad question is the one you don't ask.  I just
want lazy people to be more respectful of resources. 
I've had good questions unanswered because of the
VOLUME of laziness.

> 	There has been more then one time when I have
> assisted someone,
> in a far off land, that may have had some serious
> issues in
> understanding the way that the manuals were written.
> Is it their fault
> that the structure of their native language is
> different then that of
> mine? It is no more their fault then it is my own
> fault for speaking
> differing languages. 

I see your point in this case.

> 	Also, is it their fault that some, if not great
> deal of the
> available online documentation could be out of date?

Books (one published this month), magazines, google,
this mailing list, etc. aren't.  I DID mention them.

> 	If "newbs" tend to ask the same questions over >
and over and you
> don't like to see what they wrote, delete it. You
> don't have to respond
> and it's not that big of a deal to take a second to
> read something that
> you have no intention of responding positively to.

I already do.  This is not about me... filters are
great, and it takes like 5 minutes throughout the day
to delete the lazy questions.  It's not about me.

I'm talking about wasting resources.. the developer's
time, and real questions getting lost in a sea of lazy
questions.

> 	You can also do what I do. Nicely answer the
> question and then
> point out a few pieces of material that could assist
> that "newb" in
> expanding their knowledge to a level closer to those
> of us who were once
> "newbs" ourselves. You may make more friends, gain
> respect and also flex
> the "muscles" within your own mind going over the
> little things that you
> might not have looked at in a little while.

Yup, every day I'll pick a good question or three out
from the sea and answer what I can, in as best detail
as I can.

You could probably stand to read Eric Raymond's "How
to ask questions the smart way"
http://munk.nu/www.tuxedo.org/%257Eesr/faqs/smart-questions.html

"What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people
who seem to be unwilling to think or do their own
homework before asking questions. People like that are
time sinks — they take without giving back, they waste
time we could have spent on another question more
interesting and another person more worthy of an
answer. We call people like this "losers" (and for
historical reasons we sometimes spell it "lusers")."


What I really meant to tell newbies was

"!!ATTENTION LAZY PEOPLE!!  Help yourself with these
resources!  Respect valuable mailing list/developer
resources!"

and I'm sorry you misunderstood me.

/dev/idal

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