netlogon.idl and lsa.idl files: making a start

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

On Tue, Oct 16, 2001 at 07:49:39PM -0700, Andrew Tridgell wrote:
> Luke,
> 
> I'm glad to see the progress you are making, 

slow but sure.

> but I really wish you'd
> stop on this complete crap:
> 
> > thanks to dr andrew tridgell for taking
> > the $USD 25,000 of the IDG linux award and also for
> 
> The money went to the samba team. I did *NOT* pocket it, 

no, no, sorry: i didn't say you pocketed it, i'd be
shocked and dismayed if you did, and i never intended
to give anyone the impression that you might, including
you.

> and even if
> you were in the team the money would not be available for this sort of
> expense. It has been used for travel expenses, not to buy people
> software. I have received *NONE* of it, not even for travel.
> 
> At the time of the award when we tried to include you in the award you
> sent us abusive emails and said you were boycotting the whole
> thing. 

yes, i was, at the time, extremely upset, as you may recall,
by the extremely frustrating and constant blockades you
were putting on development that, each time i came up
against each of your blockades i got more and more upset.

cumulatively, this was almost enough, in amongst the other
things going on, to push me mentally over the edge.

in all, it was a major setback that delayed things by at least 
another two man-years.

the award was made to "the samba team" and of course, you and
jeremy had made it abundantly clear for approximately two years
that any development by me was totally unacceptable, and therefore
i wasn't part of that team.

so naturally i wanted no part of "your" award.

if the award had been made to the group that developed NT
domains, i would have been happy to accept.  given that
the award was made to a group that had only just, by their
behaviour, made it really clear that i was totally unwelcome,
you can hardly blame me for not wanting to be part of it.

additionally, it was the monetary aspect that particularly
annoyed me, given that i can think of development projects
where $25,000 could be put to far better use than being
spent on plane flights.

with worldwide and major continental coverage between
the lot of us, companies and conference organisers are
quite happy to pay for at least one of us to go to an
event if it only means a local plane flight or land-based
transport costs, and for major events and the
importance of these projects, they'd probably stretch to
international flights, too.



> > cutting me off from the MSDN and other resources available to the
> > samba team.
> 
> I don't have MSDN either, and neither does the team. 

[??? then how does anyone do any work?]

> The companies I
> used to work for did have and I have some of the (old) CDs from that,
> but that's all. You were "cut off" from those CDs when you got
> yourself fired from the company that had the subscription.

the samba team has an msdn subscription, given to you
by MS AUS, remember?  [not that it got renewed, which is
why you had to arrange for linuxcare to buy one]


> I have been unemployed for a month now, 

sorry to hear that.

me too, since mid-august.

> paying for all the development
> I have been doing out of my own pocket, 

me too.  again.


> yet you keep making me out to
> be some sort of ogre sitting on a pile of your money. 

no, i don't consider the IDG award to be "my money", andrew.


i naturally assumed that the money would be spent on
software such as an msdn subscription, code warrior,
profiling tools, memory and bug tracking tools, etc.
that generally improve code quality and functionality.

now i'm very surprised to hear that it's being spent
on travel.


> I worked on
> Samba for 7 years for no payment and for the last little while I've
> been back doing that. I hope I'll soon start getting paid again, but
> when I see this sort of absolute crap from you it really irritates
> me. 

well, if it irritates you and you understand _why_ then, to
be absolutely frank, _good_.

if it irritates you and you misunderstand and refuse to understand,
then that's really bad.

if it irritates you enough to respond, and that response helps
clarify any misunderstandings on _my_ part, then good, and
also sorry, and also thank you.


i'm _not_ going to give up telling it is how i think it is,
for several reasons, and if that's in your praise or criticism, 
or anyone else's, i'm not going to keep my mouth shut, i never
have.

> Remember that Samba is a FREE SOFTWARE PROJECT. You should not join
> the project team with the aim of making money, yet that seems to be
> what you did. 

no, originally, it wasn't.

what got me really annoyed is that so many people benefitted
world-wide, and with samba's popularity going up you'd
think we'd be included, and i watched the gain received
for amount of effort expended actually go _negative_,
and it started to piss me off.


> You even went as far as tying the code design you wanted
> to your many and varied money making schemes, asking Jeremy and I to
> give you special licenses so you could use our code in your
> schemes. If people do make money on Samba then I don't object, in fact
> I'm delighted, but whining that you are not making enough or that its
> my fault just shows you are in the wrong business.
> 
> Basically the dramatic statements you have been making for the last
> year are complete bullshit. I thought after you posted that long and
> ficticious story of how badly treated you were at Linuxcare you might
> have got it off your chest, but it looks like you are just going to
> keep going on this forever. I can only imagine you are trying to evoke
> some sort of sympathy from Samba users. Now if you posted what
> *really* happened in your job and why you were fired 

i did.

approximately three to four months ago.

... oh: the "long and ficticious story"?

... andrew, i'm going to go out on a limb here and
guess that you've never been through any kind of
psychologically traumatic events, have you?

can i suggest that you never ever again tell someone
that events they've been through must be "ficticious"?



> then you wouldn't
> get any sympathy, but of course you don't do that. You make up a story
> where saint Luke gets screwed over by anyone he meets. 

[that, as i said in that message three to four months ago,
if you actually read it, was as much my own limitations
as everyone else's who was involved]

no, just by people who have extremely good technical
skills but can't make design compromises to achieve
longer-term aims, and can't trust people who can see
the larger picture.


you're right: i've been making a lot of progress - some
of it with you, even.

there's still a long way to go - for both of us.

i just wish that none of this shit had ever happened.
if nothing else, believe that.

luke