[clug] Advice about buying a new laptop

Tue Sep 22 02:16:22 UTC 2015

Some distros do have hardware compatibility lists.

Ubuntu has a database of computer compatibility
http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/desktop/ from the major brands
such as Dell, HP, Lenovo, Asus. So if it's one of these brands, you
can take a look at what works what doesn't for a computer you're
interested in.

Dell even sells XPS "Developer" models with Ubuntu pre-installed,
however I'm not sure these are available in Australia and even the
lowest-spec model will blow your $800 budget.

Personally my choice has usually been Thinkpads. The keyboards are
[usually] quite nice to type on and the higher-spec (more expensive)
X-series tend to have the all-"vanilla" intel chipsets discussed that
work well. I rarely have problems except when starting out there's
usually a bit of well-documented fiddling to get the trackpoint
(stick) to scroll properly in my favourite distro.

For the $800 price range, I've actually just recently bought a
ThinkPad E450 for my daughter:

http://shopap.lenovo.com/au/en/laptops/thinkpad/edge-series/e450/

The Edge series is more of a budget line but still decent value.
Generally I think it's true that the cheaper you go, the more
exotic/incompatible the hardware will become. Having said that, I'm
not expecting any particular troubles from the E450 with Linux,
although if you buy the model with dual integrated/discrete (radeon)
graphics you can sometimes end up living with annoying bugs like this:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-lts-utopic/+bug/1433920

... eventually I've had similar things eventually bug-fixed through an
update, but the reality is that there's often some similar, hopefully
survivable glitches to deal with whenever you're running an operating
system that the manufacturer has no interest in supporting.

Cheers

--
Paul

On 22/09/15 11:44, Rodney Peters wrote:> I doubt this will be an issue
with contempory laptops.  These are likely to be running Win 8.x *64
> bit* and if not then I suggest that a buyer move on to the next item in the shop - because 64 bit
> is where the action is - indeed, many distro are no longer producing a 32 bit desktop-oriented
> release.
>
> AFAIK, all Win 8 implementations need UEFI and practically all UEFI machines come partitioned
> with GPT, which allows 128 primary partitions.  Mine came with 6 primary partitions already -
> openSUSE installer elected to shrink the main one and create 3 addtional.   I later shrunk further
> and now have 11 primaries, enabling me to triple-boot ROSA as well as openSUSE & Win 8.1.
>
> Your HP desktop might have been an earlier model that came with obsolescent MS DOS disk
> label (partition table).  These were problematic, althought not impossible to dual-boot.  In the
> case of a desktop simply install a second HDD for Linux only (and GPT it to boot - no pun
> intended)
>
> Rod
>
>
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:22:44 jhock at iinet.net.au wrote:
>> I have had two Asus EeePCs and they were both very easy to convert to Ubuntu
>> (they came with Windows OS). I just had to answer seven easy questions to
>> fully install Ubuntu. I did not bother with dual boot.
>>
>> We bought an HP desktop for our son. I tried to load dual boot with Ubuntu
>> but the way Windows was configured in multiple partitions it didn't work.
>> I'm not patient enough to try and solve the problem so I uninstalled Ubuntu
>> and left the HP to its own fate without my intervention.
>>
>> I would suggest asking how the operating system is partitioned onto the hard
>> drive as it may be very difficult to install another OS if it's all over
>> the place.
>>
>> John.
>>
>>
>> ---- Rodney Peters wrote ----
>>
>>> Some other items to add to your decision matrix:
>>>
>>> battery life - whilst 8 hr might be achievable, if you really need it,
>>> lower priced models tend to have lower capacity batteries
>>>
>>> OTOH, lower CPU speed lowers power drain, other things being equal, if
>>> performance is not a major criteria.
>>>
>>> hardware virtual machine capability - if you are not majoring in IT then
>>> this is probably not a requirement.
>>>
>>> I've no doubt that many CLUGgers use Toshibas, however it is a brand that
>>> sometimes requires work-arounds to get Linux functioning and therefore
>>> best avoided by less experienced users.
>>>
>>> If buying from a bricks&mortar shop then one thing you should ask the
>>> salesperson to demonstrate is how to *disable* secure boot - although
>>> openSUSE 13.1 does not require that some less popular Linux still might.
>>> Similarly, they should be prepared to show you how to enable hardware
>>> virtual machine support.
>>>
>>> I don't use laptops much and my current Acer E522 might be at the lower end
>>> of what a student requires.  openSUSE 13.1 installed on it besides Win 8,
>>> without a hitch.  I've since done online upgrades to openSUSE 13.2 and Win
>>> 8.1 (the latter from the Acer site).  The upgrades went smoothly.  Both
>>> the above OS boot whether or not Secure Boot is enabled.
>>>
>>> Main downside is that the firmware does not support hardware virtual
>>> machine (although the CPU would).  The only games I do are card games -
>>> the above model has 1.5 GHz CPU and might not be much chop for action
>>> games.
>>>
>>> Sometimes better deals are available direct online (was my case) and
>>> sometimes in eg Officeworks.  Depends on how soon you need to purchase.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> Rod
>>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 22:37:03 jm wrote:
>>>> Your biggest problem i
>>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 22:37:03 jm wrote:
>>>> Your biggest problem is likely to be drivers and having the laptop
>>>> behave correctly when you close the lid to put it to sleep. I'll leave
>>>> it up to others to comment on specific brands. Just a few questions from
>>>> me that may help shape the discussion.
>>>>
>>>> I'm guessing the dual boot requirement is either for games or software
>>>> requirement of the degree your doing (eg, you must use M$ Word). Would
>>>> this be correct? Can you elaborate on the application you need to run
>>>> (or are likely to run)?
>>>>
>>>> Do you mind buying online sight unseen, or would you prefer to shop in
>>>> person?
>>>>
>>>> How fast do you need it?
>>>>
>>>> Depending on your answers it may limit the available choices.
>>>>
>>>> This would go down like a ton of bricks with the sales person, but you
>>>> could create a live USB image to boot off and try on or two laptops in a
>>>> store to see if the obvious things checked out.
>>>>
>>>> The good news is that things are getting better and Linux support is
>>>> improving al the time.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff.
>>>>
>>>> On 21/09/2015 6:06 pm, Sharon Doig wrote:
>>>>> Hi Canberra Linux Group,I am a lurker here and need some advice about
>>>>> buying a new laptop. I am looking at a sub $800 lap top computer to use
>>>>> for university studies. Can anyone tell me what brands and models would
>>>>> allow me to duel boot Open Suse 13.1 and windows? I am hoping to duel
>>>>> boot on a windows 8 or higher OS. Since I am really new at buying a
>>>>> machine to run both windows and linux on. Could you provide a list of
>>>>> questions for the sale person/manufacturer help line.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>> Sharon Doig Sharon Doig in Canberra - Australia
>>>>> E: po_box_304 at yahoo.com.au

On 22 September 2015 at 11:44, Rodney Peters <rodneyp at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> I doubt this will be an issue with contempory laptops.  These are likely to be running Win 8.x *64
> bit* and if not then I suggest that a buyer move on to the next item in the shop - because 64 bit
> is where the action is - indeed, many distro are no longer producing a 32 bit desktop-oriented
> release.
>
> AFAIK, all Win 8 implementations need UEFI and practically all UEFI machines come partitioned
> with GPT, which allows 128 primary partitions.  Mine came with 6 primary partitions already -
> openSUSE installer elected to shrink the main one and create 3 addtional.   I later shrunk further
> and now have 11 primaries, enabling me to triple-boot ROSA as well as openSUSE & Win 8.1.
>
> Your HP desktop might have been an earlier model that came with obsolescent MS DOS disk
> label (partition table).  These were problematic, althought not impossible to dual-boot.  In the
> case of a desktop simply install a second HDD for Linux only (and GPT it to boot - no pun
> intended)
>
> Rod
>
>
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:22:44 jhock at iinet.net.au wrote:
>> I have had two Asus EeePCs and they were both very easy to convert to Ubuntu
>> (they came with Windows OS). I just had to answer seven easy questions to
>> fully install Ubuntu. I did not bother with dual boot.
>>
>> We bought an HP desktop for our son. I tried to load dual boot with Ubuntu
>> but the way Windows was configured in multiple partitions it didn't work.
>> I'm not patient enough to try and solve the problem so I uninstalled Ubuntu
>> and left the HP to its own fate without my intervention.
>>
>> I would suggest asking how the operating system is partitioned onto the hard
>> drive as it may be very difficult to install another OS if it's all over
>> the place.
>>
>> John.
>>
>>
>> ---- Rodney Peters wrote ----
>>
>> >Some other items to add to your decision matrix:
>> >
>> >battery life - whilst 8 hr might be achievable, if you really need it,
>> >lower priced models tend to have lower capacity batteries
>> >
>> >OTOH, lower CPU speed lowers power drain, other things being equal, if
>> >performance is not a major criteria.
>> >
>> >hardware virtual machine capability - if you are not majoring in IT then
>> >this is probably not a requirement.
>> >
>> >I've no doubt that many CLUGgers use Toshibas, however it is a brand that
>> >sometimes requires work-arounds to get Linux functioning and therefore
>> >best avoided by less experienced users.
>> >
>> >If buying from a bricks&mortar shop then one thing you should ask the
>> >salesperson to demonstrate is how to *disable* secure boot - although
>> >openSUSE 13.1 does not require that some less popular Linux still might.
>> >Similarly, they should be prepared to show you how to enable hardware
>> >virtual machine support.
>> >
>> >I don't use laptops much and my current Acer E522 might be at the lower end
>> >of what a student requires.  openSUSE 13.1 installed on it besides Win 8,
>> >without a hitch.  I've since done online upgrades to openSUSE 13.2 and Win
>> >8.1 (the latter from the Acer site).  The upgrades went smoothly.  Both
>> >the above OS boot whether or not Secure Boot is enabled.
>> >
>> >Main downside is that the firmware does not support hardware virtual
>> >machine (although the CPU would).  The only games I do are card games -
>> >the above model has 1.5 GHz CPU and might not be much chop for action
>> >games.
>> >
>> >Sometimes better deals are available direct online (was my case) and
>> >sometimes in eg Officeworks.  Depends on how soon you need to purchase.
>> >
>> >HTH,
>> >
>> >Rod
>> >
>> >On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 22:37:03 jm wrote:
>> >> Your biggest problem i
>> >
>> >On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 22:37:03 jm wrote:
>> >> Your biggest problem is likely to be drivers and having the laptop
>> >> behave correctly when you close the lid to put it to sleep. I'll leave
>> >> it up to others to comment on specific brands. Just a few questions from
>> >> me that may help shape the discussion.
>> >>
>> >> I'm guessing the dual boot requirement is either for games or software
>> >> requirement of the degree your doing (eg, you must use M$ Word). Would
>> >> this be correct? Can you elaborate on the application you need to run
>> >> (or are likely to run)?
>> >>
>> >> Do you mind buying online sight unseen, or would you prefer to shop in
>> >> person?
>> >>
>> >> How fast do you need it?
>> >>
>> >> Depending on your answers it may limit the available choices.
>> >>
>> >> This would go down like a ton of bricks with the sales person, but you
>> >> could create a live USB image to boot off and try on or two laptops in a
>> >> store to see if the obvious things checked out.
>> >>
>> >> The good news is that things are getting better and Linux support is
>> >> improving al the time.
>> >>
>> >> Jeff.
>> >>
>> >> On 21/09/2015 6:06 pm, Sharon Doig wrote:
>> >> > Hi Canberra Linux Group,I am a lurker here and need some advice about
>> >> > buying a new laptop. I am looking at a sub $800 lap top computer to use
>> >> > for university studies. Can anyone tell me what brands and models would
>> >> > allow me to duel boot Open Suse 13.1 and windows? I am hoping to duel
>> >> > boot on a windows 8 or higher OS. Since I am really new at buying a
>> >> > machine to run both windows and linux on. Could you provide a list of
>> >> > questions for the sale person/manufacturer help line.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks in advance.
>> >> > Sharon Doig Sharon Doig in Canberra - Australia
>> >> > E: po_box_304 at yahoo.com.au
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