[clug] Windows 10 upgrade

Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.clug at gmail.com
Tue Jun 2 23:48:56 MDT 2015

On 02/06/15 23:45, George at Clug wrote:
>     Scott,
> There is much reflection in your statements.
> If you consider a 30% levy on ever Windows Store purchase, then maybe
> Windows 10 can be free for home users.

Maybe - except MS never said it'd be free forever (well, they did, but
the statement was drafted by lawyers - and the devil is in the details
"for the life of the 'DEVICE'").

Perhaps that's why such a "monumental change" also means "business as

> As for "relinquish that control and allow Microsoft to do the work", I
> do believe the face of "SOE" will really change as apps replace
> applications. 

Only if the meaning of SOE changes.... so far all the "apps" (which
apparently are different from "applications") are "pre-release" (don't
work?). Back when it was the fashion to wear onions on our belts SOE
meant "thoroughly tested after change control".

HINT: Windows 10 forever means dynamic changes - possibly a versioning
nightmate, certainly not simple to nail down for support purposes (e.g.
with W8.1 it's not unusual to have a SOE that has had 10 versions
already - and with only small periods of time between versions
developers and testers can't do their jobs properly. Years of monthly
changes in both the OS and applications is not likely to be fun *when*
MS controls things). Spartan and SAP - lots of joy.

> Group Policies will still be there for Enterprise
> customers, and for some time (if not indefinitely) Enterprise will be
> able to have in house servers that do whatever Microsoft does in the
> cloud. That way Microsoft can keep the government users happy too. 

Spartan and SAP - lots of joy.

The reason MS is deployed by so many gov departments is threefold:-
;MS "rewards" influential purchasers (golf buggy if you ditch Novell/SUSE?)
;OS choices are influenced by staff (all our new recruits swear by what
they used in uni/CIT)
;*big* investments in SAP and Oracle and developing for those systems
binds then to Office and the browser (is their an M$ promise of IE

It's the last point that is difficult to support with Windows 10 and "apps".

> But for non Enterprise customers, they will be using Azure and other
> Microsoft Cloud systems (Microsoft will be in control of security and
> data), the security which will eventually ripple through to Internet
> systems that people use today (like Facebook, banking, etc) allowing
> Microsoft to own more of the Internet.

Only if they make good on previous major investments in search,
advertising, and mobile phones... and reverse their trend of making bad

> Maybe this is why my laptop now is running Debian Jessie with Xfce
> Linux.  But seriously to the average facebook user, doesn't need to
> care or be bothered about any of this, they can just upgrade and be
> happy.

Agreed. Most "users" don't really know anything about the OS - they
"think" they do (facepainters/fan bois) but all they really care about
is "response time", "apps" (can I do email/Grindr/dropbox?), and
boasting rights(?).

> I expect that most Windows 7 and (almost) all  Windows 8.x users will
> upgrade by default. 

Agreed. "Users". Most schools and business that I work with have
regretted the move to W8 (generally driven by touch screens). Many will
stick with W7 like they did with XP. Those that have moved to Office 360
don't have many good stories, and many have used that as a reason to
move to Chrome (e.g. biggest school in the ACT).

My experience is that W8 brought Apple/iPad and Chrome into many
businesses and schools - and that influenced many MS fans to demand the
same. Which is why I like W8+, and why I don't use it. :)

> I really don't see any reason for them not to?  

Sure, they'll "go with the flow" (like dead fish). Those that don't
insist on iPad/Apple/Android... (anything but MS)

Which is why so many of us at the support end have pushed for BYOD -
that way we're supporting "access" only (and warranty repairs) instead
of trying to nail snot to the wall. "User" support is now being
relegated to the manufacturer. Leaving many "users" underproductive as
they struggle to update their Ffffacebook pages and connect to the
printer - and no, the insistence of many in the use of Excel for tables
that don't do math doesn't mean it'll be usable on your iPad (oh wait -
you didn't know it can't *multi-process*?).

> I am curious to see if this is what happens. 

As am I. It seems to be driving a trend towards "standards", Citrix, and
greater use of OS agnostic applications running on middle and backend
servers (running Linux). That's the good changes - the bad ones are
unhappy and unproductive users, and stressed help desk staff being asked
to support the unsupportable.

> And I do wonder how many
> people have issues with Windows 10?  It is different to Windows XP,
> it is different to Windows 7. But if people survived the change from
> Windows XP to Windows 7, 

"people" did, many companies not so much (major investments in periphial
hardware that can only be supported in virtualization), down-time for
re-skilling, re-documentation, re-testing and re-coding.

> I don't see why they will not be able to make
> the change from Windows 7 to Windows 10. 
> At Tuesday, 02-06-2015 on 19:45 Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 02/06/15 19:27, George at Clug wrote:
>>      I wonder how many of you have heard that Windows 7, and I
Kind regards

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