[clug] Being polite on the list - or: Geek Feminism 101

[Eyal Lebedinsky]

Lana Brindley wrote:
> 2009/7/21 Alex Satrapa <alexsatrapa at mac.com>
> 
>> On 21/07/2009, at 16:27 , Neill Cox wrote:
>>
>>  You all realized you need 5 in a row to win at bingo?
>> I expect that Lana linked that Bingo page as a joke. My response was thus
>> also intended to be in jest, though perhaps my humour is a little blacker
>> than most can (or want to) comprehend.
> 
> Yes, it was intended to be light-hearted. As are most of my comments,
> including the original one about not being a guy. The idea was (and always
> has been) to make the poster think about the language they have used.
> 
> What's interesting (to me anyway) is the way that "Gee, can't you take a
> joke?" gets trotted out every single time someone gets offended at
> something. My point, by linking to the bingo card, was that it's not a valid
> response. Offense is *always* in the eye of the beholder

Yes this is true, but this does not make the other party an "offender". Every
person is responsible for themselves, their imagination and internal context.
To claim otherwise calls for some evidence that an offence was intended, even
slightly.

 > and no amount of
> "I was only kidding", or "I have a friend who's a [insert offended group
> here], and *they* didn't get offended" is ever going to make the offended
> person like you any better.
> 
> In other words ... *think* before you type.

I do, as do most people on this list, but you expect people to guess what goes
on in every reader's head before posting, which is just not possible. And not
desirable, better concentrate on the real subject. Are you *sure* that 'guys'
was the *only* word *someone* could be offended by when reading the original
post? Some do not like being called a 'geek', some are offended when referred
to as a 'programmer' (we are engineers, right?)...

I you want to change the language then just use it your way- if it sticks
then everyone wins.

> However, as Kristy so rightly pointed out, this conversation has gone on too
> long. As I depart, please let me leave you with one more thought-provoker:
> Don't assume anything, about anyone, ever. Especially in the geek community.

Actually, we all assume, all the time. Researching every thought will make the
discussions here very slow moving. So suppose I say "guys" and really assume
"men", what of it? If the point is about why gcc 4.0 has this strange warning
text then the assumption is irrelevant, and making it just allows me to skip
the irrelevant and get to the point. When the assumption matters to the
subject then sure, it needs pointing out (as wrong or right).

I don't know what some of the participants in this thread look like, yet in
my head I always have their image when I read. I make these up effortlessly.
Always. Can't stop it. And at times I could be be wrong...

The horror! Some of you may be *very* offended by my imagination :-) Lana,
I don't want to know what I look like in *your* head right now.

We all have our own internal worlds, and if it leaks out at times... remind
yourself that it is not your problem and often not a problem at all. Do my
dreams need to follow your PC advice too?

Lana, I could assume that having made your point you will move on but I
realize that this is only one step in your crusade. You want to improve
us (males). I doubt that this way will achieve this. Having perused some
of the reference material (offered on the thread) I now know better, to
steer away from some discussions with some women. I probably should have
stayed off this one too.

Guys (of the male kind), no need to feel guilty and do not torture
yourselves when you post again (unless you *actually* did not know that
there are women on the list) and just write freely and be nice to everyone
and accept that some readers will still be offended sometime.

OK, I now consider this thread better balanced. *now* we can close it.

> 
> L

cheers guys, see you tomorrow.

n.b. What is the 'male' equivalent of 'feminism'? menimism? minism?

--
Eyal [the tool] Lebedinsky	(eyal at eyal.emu.id.au)