[cifs-protocol] [EXTERNAL] Re: [MS-KILE] Certificate strings - but nothing is said as to how these strings are to be derived from the client’s certificate - TrackingID#2308180010001826

Tue Sep 26 22:49:02 UTC 2023

I will see what more I can find out.

Best regards,
Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Protocol Open Specifications Team
Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone: (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada)
Local country phone number found here: http://support.microsoft.com/globalenglish | Extension 1138300

From: Andrew Bartlett <abartlet at samba.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2023 3:04 PM
To: Jeff McCashland (He/him) <jeffm at microsoft.com>; Joseph Sutton <jsutton at samba.org>; cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org
Cc: Microsoft Support <supportmail at microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [cifs-protocol] [EXTERNAL] Re: [MS-KILE] Certificate strings - but nothing is said as to how these strings are to be derived from the client’s certificate - TrackingID#2308180010001826

Thanks.  Can you expand on
> Note No semantics are to be attached to these values other than those specified in section 3.

In particular, how are the values in this enum used in Active Directory, in particular is there any use in conditional ACEs?  Section 3 isn't a clear enough reference sorry!

Thanks,

Andrew Bartlett

On Fri, 2023-09-22 at 22:17 +0000, Jeff McCashland (He/him) via cifs-protocol wrote:

Hi Joseph,

Here is further information: The string in pCertificateStringsArray represents a certificate based claim source.  We could have 2 types of claim source, AD based source or certificate based source.

Claims source type is defined here:

[MS-ADTS] 2.2.18.3 CLAIMS_SOURCE_TYPE

The CLAIMS_SOURCE_TYPE enumeration specifies the source of the claims.

      typedef  enum _CLAIMS_SOURCE_TYPE

      {

        CLAIMS_SOURCE_TYPE_AD = 1,

        CLAIMS_SOURCE_TYPE_CERTIFICATE

      } CLAIMS_SOURCE_TYPE;

Note  No semantics are to be attached to these values other than those specified in section 3.

That last note indicates that the format is left undefined other than as a string blob, intended to be implementation-specific.

Please let me know if this does not answer your question.

Best regards,

Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Protocol Open Specifications Team

Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone: (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada)

Local country phone number found here:
<http://support.microsoft.com/globalenglish>

http://support.microsoft.com/globalenglish

 | Extension 1138300

-----Original Message-----

From: Jeff McCashland (He/him)

Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 10:15 AM

To: Joseph Sutton <
<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

jsutton at samba.org<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

>;
<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

Cc: Microsoft Support <
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Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [MS-KILE] Certificate strings - but nothing is said as to how these strings are to be derived from the client’s certificate - TrackingID#2308180010001826

Hi Joseph,

What I've been able to determine so far is that pCertificateStringsArray is a set of OIDs of msDS-ClaimSource attribute. Hopefully this helps.

I'll let you know if I discover more information.

Best regards,

Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Protocol Open Specifications Team

Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone: (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number found here:
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 | Extension 1138300

-----Original Message-----

From: Jeff McCashland (He/him)

Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 3:52 PM

To: Joseph Sutton <
<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

jsutton at samba.org<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

>;
<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

Cc: Microsoft Support <
<mailto:supportmail at microsoft.com>

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>

Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [MS-KILE] Certificate strings - but nothing is said as to how these strings are to be derived from the client’s certificate - TrackingID#2308180010001826

Hi Joseph,

Thank you for your fast response. I will analyze the traces and let you know what I find.

Best regards,

Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Protocol Open Specifications Team

Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone: (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number found here:
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 | Extension 1138300

-----Original Message-----

From: Joseph Sutton <
<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

jsutton at samba.org<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

>

Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 3:44 PM

To: Jeff McCashland (He/him) <
<mailto:jeffm at microsoft.com>

jeffm at microsoft.com<mailto:jeffm at microsoft.com>

>;
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Cc: Microsoft Support <
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Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [MS-KILE] Certificate strings - but nothing is said as to how these strings are to be derived from the client’s certificate - TrackingID#2308180010001826

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Hi,

I have uploaded a TTD trace and a network trace. The PKINIT AS-REQ I’m interested in should be the final AS-REQ that appears in the network trace.

Regards,

Joseph

On 24/08/23 8:53 am, Jeff McCashland (He/him) wrote:

Hi Joseph,

That configuration is quite complex in Windows. I think it would be best to collect a TTT trace from your attempted repro. This will allow me to debug into where the PAC is being populated so I can determine what is needed in the Unicode string array. Please collect and upload an LSASS TTT trace and concurrent network trace from your Windows Server where the AS Req is processed.

The LSASS traces can be quite large, but are highly compressible, so please add them to a .zip archive before uploading (file transfer workspace credentials are below). Please log into the workspace and find PartnerTTDRecorder_x86_x64.zip available for download. The x64 tool can be staged onto the Windows server in any location (instructions below assume C:\TTD).

To collect the needed traces:

      1. From an elevated command prompt, run "tasklist /FI "IMAGENAME eq lsass.exe" and note the PID number

      2. Run the command (using the PID from step 1): "C:\TTD\TTTracer.exe -attach [PID]"

      3. From a PowerShell prompt, execute:

              C:\TTD\tttracer.exe -Attach ([int](Get-Process -NAME lsass | Format-Wide -Property ID).formatEntryInfo.formatPropertyField.propertyValue)

      4. Wait for a little window to pop up in top left corner of your screen, titled “lsass01.run”

      5. start a network trace using netsh or WireShark, etc.

      6. Repro the attempted operation

      7. Stop the network trace and save it

      8. CAREFULLY: uncheck the checkbox next to “Tracing” in the small “lsass01.run” window. Do not close or exit the small window or you will need to reboot.

      9. The TTTracer.exe process will generate a trace file, then print out the name and location of the file.

Compress the *.run file into a .zip archive before uploading with the matching network trace. It is a good idea to reboot the machine at the next opportunity to restart the lsass process.

Workspace information:

Log in as:
<mailto:2308180010001826_joseph at dtmxfer.onmicrosoft.com>

2308180010001826_joseph at dtmxfer.onmicrosoft.com<mailto:2308180010001826_joseph at dtmxfer.onmicrosoft.com>

1-time: xU1GQ+f1

Workspace link:
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https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupp<https://supp/>

ort.microsoft.com%2Ffiles%3Fworkspace%3DeyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJSUz

I1NiJ9.eyJ3c2lkIjoiOWY3ZDY3ODMtNjBhOC00OGE0LTk3MTctNDUzYzY2ZDQxYTJiIiw

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ysUGWfuKC4yGn5i_VI9QcRH12zdEifbNG3oHcA0Sdc7ke9Oq0MzHPvTI_jIPRoKmU235pt

LHCH9zPznKnri4GigHIDC_-sq-H2czKio2-4CVcRtxIe5MHo8zy7u16lePsMFORGYL9Mv7

y4U35QQ-VH6ha6PhgAH9aynO2tmTdCtqg%26wid%3D9f7d6783-60a8-48a4-9717-453c

66d41a2b&data=05%7C01%7Cjeffm%40microsoft.com%7C0b1be9ac901a4abb3aec08

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8580%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT

iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=c5XPHYjQ4ShzE5Vffphy9k

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Best regards,

Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft

Protocol Open Specifications Team

Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone:

(UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number

found here:
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7C1%7C0%7C638284274725448580%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM

DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdat

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-----Original Message-----

From: Jeff McCashland (He/him)

Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2023 2:25 PM

To: Joseph Sutton <
<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

jsutton at samba.org<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

>;
<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

Cc: Microsoft Support <
<mailto:supportmail at microsoft.com>

supportmail at microsoft.com<mailto:supportmail at microsoft.com>

>

Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [MS-KILE] Certificate strings - but

nothing is said as to how these strings are to be derived from the

client’s certificate - TrackingID#2308180010001826

Hi Joseph,

Thank you for the information.

It appears the certificate strings array needs to contain the msDS-ClaimSource that you mentioned, which may have values such as 'AD', 'Certificate', or 'TransformPolicy'.

I will see what more I can find out.

Best regards,

Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft

Protocol Open Specifications Team

Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone:

(UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number

found here:
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Extension 1138300

-----Original Message-----

From: Joseph Sutton <
<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

jsutton at samba.org<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

>

Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 11:30 PM

To: Jeff McCashland (He/him) <
<mailto:jeffm at microsoft.com>

jeffm at microsoft.com<mailto:jeffm at microsoft.com>

>;
<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

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Cc: Microsoft Support <
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>

Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [MS-KILE] Certificate strings - but nothing is

said as to how these strings are to be derived from the client’s

certificate - TrackingID#2308180010001826

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Hi,

I have not managed to have Windows generate these certificate strings myself, but I imagine the procedure looks something like the following.

First, create a claim type like so:

dn: CN=ExampleClaim,CN=Claim Types,CN=Claims

    Configuration,CN=Services,CN=Configuration,DC=example,DC=com

changetype: add

objectClass: msDS-ClaimType

Enabled: TRUE

msDS-ClaimIsSingleValued: TRUE

msDS-ClaimSource: (what value should this have? — see below.)

msDS-ClaimSourceType: Certificate

msDS-ClaimTypeAppliesToClass:

    CN=User,CN=Schema,CN=Configuration,DC=example,DC=com

msDS-ClaimTypeAppliesToClass:

    CN=Computer,CN=Schema,CN=Configuration,DC=example,DC=com

msDS-ClaimValueType: 6

Then, having installed and set up Certificate Services on the Windows server, perform a Kerberos AS-REQ using PKINIT. If the KDC generates the certificate strings as specified in [MS-ADTS], the claim ought now to be in the PAC_CLIENT_CLAIMS_INFO PAC buffer in the TGT. More pertinently (from an end user’s perspective), with the claim in the PAC we should be authorized to access resources requiring possession of said claim.

I’ve followed these steps as far as making the Kerberos AS-REQ.

The part of all this that I’m quite uncertain about is how to set the

attribute “msDS-ClaimSource”. According to the documentation for

GetCertificateSourcedClaims() ([MS-ADTS] section 3.1.1.11.2.3), a certificate-sourced claim will be issued only if this attribute matches one of the certificate strings. But, as of yet, I haven’t been able to discover what value this attribute should hold for that to happen, not knowing how the certificate strings are derived. That’s what I’m ultimately trying to find out.

Regards,

Joseph

On 22/08/23 6:23 am, Jeff McCashland (He/him) wrote:

Hi Joseph,

I think I will need to do some debugging to find the answer to your question. Do you have a use case or scenario that would use this mechanism? Can you suggest a configuration and repro steps I can use to generate the exchange?

Best regards,

Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft

Protocol Open Specifications Team

Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone:

(UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number

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7C1%7C0%7C638282826407736325%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw

M

DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sda

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Extension 1138300

-----Original Message-----

From: Jeff McCashland (He/him)

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 9:52 AM

To: Joseph Sutton <
<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

jsutton at samba.org<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

>;
<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

Cc: Microsoft Support <
<mailto:supportmail at microsoft.com>

supportmail at microsoft.com<mailto:supportmail at microsoft.com>

>

Subject: RE: [MS-KILE] Certificate strings - but nothing is said as

to how these strings are to be derived from the client’s certificate

-

TrackingID#2308180010001826

[HC to BCC]

Hi Joseph,

I will research your question and let you know what I find.

Best regards,

Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft

Protocol Open Specifications Team

Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone:

(UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number

found here:
<http://supp/>

https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsupp<http://supp/>

o%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cjeffm%40microsoft.com%7C0b1be9ac901a4abb3aec08dba

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I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=r02tETufnbF8nvwGQkwPR%

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M

DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sda

t

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Extension 1138300

-----Original Message-----

From: Hung-Chun Yu <
<mailto:HungChun.Yu at microsoft.com>

HungChun.Yu at microsoft.com<mailto:HungChun.Yu at microsoft.com>

>

Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 9:44 PM

To: Joseph Sutton <
<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

jsutton at samba.org<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

>;
<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

Cc: Microsoft Support <
<mailto:supportmail at microsoft.com>

supportmail at microsoft.com<mailto:supportmail at microsoft.com>

>; Hung-Chun Yu

<
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>

Subject: [MS-KILE] Certificate strings - but nothing is said as to

how these strings are to be derived from the client’s certificate -

TrackingID#2308180010001826

[bcc dochelp]

Hi Joseph

Thank you for contacting Protocol Support. We created SR Case - TrackingID#2308180010001826. Do leave this tag in the subject line for future references.

One of our engineers will be contacting you shortly.

Hung-Chun Yu
<mailto:hunyu at microsoft.com>

hunyu at microsoft.com<mailto:hunyu at microsoft.com>

-----Original Message-----

From: Joseph Sutton <
<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

jsutton at samba.org<mailto:jsutton at samba.org>

>

Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 7:26 PM

To:
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cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org<mailto:cifs-protocol at lists.samba.org>

; Interoperability Documentation

Help <
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>

Subject: [EXTERNAL] [MS-KILE] Certificate strings

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Hi dochelp,

[MS-KILE] 3.3.5.6.4.6, “PAC_CLIENT_CLAIMS_INFO Structure”, mentions that the KDC should call GetClaimsForPrincipal() to get the claims blob with which to populate the PAC_CLIENT_CLAIMS_INFO structure. One of the parameters to GetClaimsForPrincipal(), namely “pCertificateStringsArray”, comprises “[a] set of Unicode strings”, but nothing is said as to how these strings are to be derived from the client’s certificate.

Can you outline the procedure by which these strings are formed, and perhaps provide an example of such a string?

Regards,

Joseph

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